Anyone listen to David Koresh speak? ::: Discussion Forum Question


Anyone listen to David Koresh speak? < Acumagnet > 08/08 16:27

I was watching the beginning of this and decided to look into David Koresh a little more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVypG0JNuaw

I think he got shot and then made this tape to send out before he was killed. He was only 33. He seems like a rational person. Why would the ATF be so aggressive with him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbQFB8crxok

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Uhh… < ProudlyPinko > 08/08 17:10

Not that this is even a little bit of the whole saga…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Roden

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If he was a Messiah why did he need glasses? § < noRONPAULogies >

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so the child molesting thing is rational? § < Three_Penny_Opera >

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That’s not much to judge his rationality < iamlucky13 > 08/08 21:15

The details about Koresh beyond just the snippets in that video sound pretty nutty. The group supposedly fragmented multiple times because of disputes among various figures, including Koresh, and supposedly including a gunfight over a grave robbery as part of a challenge to prove Koresh had the power to resurrect the dead.

But the ATF doesn’t usually waste their time on nutty people. That’s FBI material at worst.

The Clinton administration had a strong stance on gun control, so the ATF was stepping up its enforcement actions, and the Davidians were suspected of having illegal firearms. If I remember right, all their firearms were later found to be legal, but that doesn’t much change the basic story. There were also allegations (ultimately found true, if I understand) of statutory rape – where the victim is may consent, but is underage.

The ATF went into their investigation with a mindset that they were dealing dangerously unstable people, perhaps with a revolutionary bent. The Sheriff told them the Davidians were more isolationists than anything, but generally got along acceptably with outsiders, and encouraged the ATF to investigate them openly.

But the ATF had the same sort of convictions that the Bush Administration took into Iraq. They’d decided ahead of time what they were going to find, so they needed a pretext to find it.

They got a warrant, but they ignored the suggestion to serve it peacefully and instead decided to do the search as a raid.

That went very badly, with several deaths on both sides before the sheriff got the ATF to withdraw. That, unsurprisingly, convinced the Davidians they were under assault by the forces of evil, and convinced the ATF that the Davidians were hell bent on killing law enforcement officers.

They both believed what they wanted, and as a result, things went downhill beyond just the first 10 deaths.

Another 76 people died before the end of it, probably mostly due to rash or even suicidal actions by the Davidians who felt trapped by progressively more intense siege tactics. The polarization that seems to be the theme of that video was very real. I saw a lot of it where I grew up.

I will give the ATF and FBI the benefit of a doubt that it was a series of bad decisions, but they were arguably the worst mistakes those agencies have made, and should have been prosecuted.

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A girl who’s 12 < thedingoatemybaby > 08/09 05:27

can’t provide informed consent to have sex with a man twice her age. It isn’t just a case of statutory rape, either.

It’s a case of child molestation.

And when you add in the patina of brainwashing of the kids’ parents, it makes the whole affair even more sordid than would be the case otherwise.

Koresh was a child molester who used religion as a crutch to have sex with women and children. He got what he deserved. Unfortunately he took a lot of innocent lives along with him.

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